Happy to read you here, welcome.And dont worry about citizenship, Italians are not lovers of flags
About the method you mention, it should be the same as Yuzuru mentioned. For me this it works better because the real date is always very unsure, and founders announce birth of nation before or after when they should - we have the same even in Italy. On the other hand, the Ingress or the syzyzy is always sure,

I ‘d like to react on charts of nations… For the little I have studied mundane astrology, according to what I remember of Steven Birchfield’s postings on InterpresStellarium, the Masters of Ye Olde Times would use a spring-ingress chart for the year that the country (or city or whatever) was founded, to cover it all.
Like this: Belgium was “founded” somewhere in octobre 1830 (I think - oh my God, I am not a good citizen, am I?), (date, place and some #times known). Instead of casting a “natal” chart for the founding of the country, Abu Mashar (or was it Masha’allah?) would use the spring-ingress chart for the city to become the capital during that year…
Lots of research to do, eh?

Herman

I have seen a lot of them, always in hindsight. Let´s wait the few scandal/problem/victory to appear and we will see a lot of hindsight predictions.
True
Bonatti advised that an event needed a “radix” and Sahl Ibn Bihr would ask “why two ships that depart at the same time have different fates?”
mmmm…even Ptolemy, more or less. In fact he writes: The strongest and principal cause of all these events exists in the ecliptical conjunctions of the Sun and Moon, and in the several transits made by the planets during those conjunctions.”
Transits mean the event chart, I believe. But he has the sizygy as radix chart.

Care to try and make a series of predictions for US ?
Hardly I could give any prediction for US, or even for Italy, I should admit.

Each one could give his own approch to Great Conjunction, Ingresses, eclipses and profections.
I don’t agree about this point. To read an eclipse it’s not just put the eclipse chart and the event chart in a biwheel, it’s calculating if an eclipse is visible, where it falls, which are its rulers, which stars are at angles.
And the same for great conjunctions. Centiloquium n.64:
“In the least conjunction, the difference of the mean conjunction, and in the mean conjunction the difference of the greatest conjunction”.

It means to judge an event from GC we should cast all the intermediate charts and so on. At least it’s not just a bi-wheel comparison.
If we don’t want to spend time to do this we are not doing traditional astrology, at least in my opinion. So better an event chart, it’s partial - I agree with you- but at least we are following traditional methods.

The chart of nation that I use is from Abu Mashar. We use the ingress chart of the time the first ruler of a “dynasty” take his crown. For somethings it seems to work, but of course I need more test.
Well, it sounds it could work. It avoids many doubts about time. And everybody used the Ingress and the syzygy before an event

it got me angry with the total lack of logic of modern astrologers. You can´t discuss even the more basic aspects of the art !
Yes, they call it astrology but it is something very different. I don’t want to say we are better than them, just we are doing different things.

“I understand your point but I swear I never saw in all my life a modern astrology in front of an event chart.”
I have seen a lot of them, always in hindsight. Let´s wait the few scandal/problem/victory to appear and we will see a lot of hindsight predictions.

“In the case they see aspects, Uranus is opposing Venus, and Pluto is with Mars and so on…If you heard about houses you are quite lucky, believe me :)”
Yes it is true… but to tell a secret, I have my doubts of the use of the houses in electional astrology.

“About the event charts I’m not skeptical - they were always used.”
Yes, but they were always a confusing issue… Dorotheus seems to use like we would use an horary chart (and later in Ramesey the same approach). But in Ben Ezra (and later in Gadbury) we see that the electional only has meaning against a natal chart. Bonatti advised that an event needed a “radix” and Sahl Ibn Bihr would ask “shy two ships that depart at the same time have different fates?”

So, my opinion at the moment is that event charts are VERY limited to use.

“But this does not mean I discard mundane techniques like Great Conjunction or Ingress or Syzygy or eclipses. Just it takes a lot of time in doing this.”
Care to try and make a series of predictions for US ? Each one could give his own approch to Great Conjunction, Ingresses, eclipses and profections.

“Event charts are quicker, it took me 15 minutes to write the post, and just because I should write in a language it’s not mine.”
Yes, and it is because of that, and of hindsight that they are so used. But I really don´t think they matter on prediction.

“About charts of nations I’m skeptical. For every nation we have 2000 charts and it’s impossible to know which is the right one. I prefer use traditional rulership as given in Tetrabiblos - everybody used them. The point we lack the one for the new world, it’s a pity.”

The chart of nation that I use is from Abu Mashar. We use the ingress chart of the time the first ruler of a “dynasty” take his crown. For somethings it seems to work, but of course I need more test.

“I hope you will write your reading of Obama inauguration too. I was sure everybody would do his/her reading and no one did.”
They are waiting things to happen, and then they will predict !
But I don´t think I will waste any more time in the inauguration chart. I have discussed in skyscript and in reality it got me angry with the total lack of logic of modern astrologers. You can´t discuss even the more basic aspects of the art !
And now with the “second oath” they are all singing Kumbaya because the moon is not “void of course”

Oh, gosh

What is “mc”?

Anyway I don’t like to censure others…

OBAMA IS AN EMPTY SUIT…A MEDIA CREATION THAT WILL NOT LAST!

Starting a presidency in a mc and void moon are bad news…
but more than that, the vast media has covered his scandals and dirty secrets,
but in future , they will come out to bite him!

HYPE, HOOPLA, HYSTERIA OVER A FALSE PROPHET!
Wake up people!

I understand your point but I swear I never saw in all my life a modern astrology in front of an event chart. In the case they see aspects, Uranus is opposing Venus, and Pluto is with Mars and so on…If you heard about houses you are quite lucky, believe me
About the event charts I’m not skeptical - they were always used. For example Dorotheus: “Look at the commencing of each matter you desire at the straight in rising from the signs and the crooked, and the tropical and the twin among them, and at the position of the star which is at the Ascendant in the commencement of each action, to see whether its end is good and bad.”

But this does not mean I discard mundane techniques like Great Conjunction or Ingress or Syzygy or eclipses. Just it takes a lot of time in doing this. If we want use modern reading of traditional methods it’s easier, but if we want apply real traditional methods as calculating the duration of the eclipse and its effects or profections of Great Conjunction this is very longer.

Event charts are quicker, it took me 15 minutes to write the post, and just because I should write in a language it’s not mine.

About charts of nations I’m skeptical. For every nation we have 2000 charts and it’s impossible to know which is the right one. I prefer use traditional rulership as given in Tetrabiblos - everybody used them. The point we lack the one for the new world, it’s a pity.

I hope you will write your reading of Obama inauguration too. I was sure everybody would do his/her reading and no one did.

Hi, Marguerita.
my problem with the events charts are always the same: what is the radix ?

i see that for modern astrologers and for modern astrologers who pretend to be traditional, there is no problem at all ! the event is the event, let´s analyze it any way we want.

I have seen people using the solar return of events. Solar returns is a technique from natal. Did anyone care about consistency ?

For now I think that the “radix” that can really make the event chart to happen is the natal chart of the president, but it may be also the “chart of the nation” whatever that is.

See also this brilliant analysis “Sun in the 10th, a favorable start followed by decline- and Mars in Capricorn is a sign of cruelty. The ninth house is one’s true ambition, Mars here must mean to conquer, and self aggrandizement.”

Oh, god, in ALL inauguration charts the sun will be in the 10th in aquarius ! Of course it is modern astrology so we can disregard everything else, because mars in capricorn is not cruelty, the ninth house is not ambition, etc, etc