Rodd wrote:
Recently I had done a chart in which Moon was the almuten of temperament (Cancer Rising, Taurus Moon). However, Mercury was the second more prominent planet - but she is not Mercurial, not as much as Ptolemy says (he puts Mercury as having a more dark complexion and small eyes, but the native is very white and has large beautiful eyes - qualities of the moon). So I think the moon adds glamour and beauty - and Ptolemy says so.

Yes, in this case I believe too we should consider Moon as a significator.

My doubt is: shall we consider the orientality/occidentality of Venus and then change her humours according to her position relative to the sun?

Yes, at least according Ptolemy the phase is one of the most important quality.

If you consider in fact the case of Sun and the Moon, Ptolemy writes

“the Sun adds a greater nobleness to the figure, and increases the healthiness of the constitution; and the Moon, especially when holding or delaying her separation, generally contributes better proportion and greater delicacy of figure, and greater moisture of temperament; but, at the same time, her influence in this latter particular is adapted to the proper ratio of her illumination; as referred to in the modes of temperament mentioned in the beginning of this treatise.”

Whatever planet he considers significator- even the Sun or the Moon- the phase is prominent.

Margherita

Sun should not have its own temperament, let alone when it is the ruler of Ascendant or something like that. In CieloeTerra they happily jump it- or I understand like that, at least.

Well, that is a doubt of mine too, concerning both the luminaires instead of only the sun. Recently I had done a chart in which Moon was the almuten of temperament (Cancer Rising, Taurus Moon). However, Mercury was the second more prominent planet - but she is not Mercurial, not as much as Ptolemy says (he puts Mercury as having a more dark complexion and small eyes, but the native is very white and has large beautiful eyes - qualities of the moon). So I think the moon adds glamour and beauty - and Ptolemy says so. Nowadays I am not too much at the side of considering the luminaries a special case.

I have the doubt about Venus if we should consider her “hot and moist”, i.e. sanguine or “cold and moist” i.e. phlegmatic. There are different versions here. Anyway I’m going to translate something else about temperament of planets.

I have always considered Venus as hot and moist, however Abu Mashar says she is cold and moist. I think Venusian people are sociable, as not as Jupiterian. Venus humors has a share of cold, but not much. My doubt is: shall we consider the orientality/occidentality of Venus and then change her humours according to her position relative to the sun?

But it is same thing I wrote
Just two considerations, but they are doubts of mine, not “you are wrong!”:
1) Sun should not have its own temperament, let alone when it is the ruler of Ascendant or something like that.
In CieloeTerra they happily jump it- or I understand like that, at least.
2) I have the doubt about Venus if we should consider her “hot and moist”, i.e. sanguine or “cold and moist” i.e. phlegmatic. There are different versions here. Anyway I’m going to translate something else about temperament of planets.

What do you think?

Dear Margherita,

The temperament/body of Carry Fisher - according to my computation - would be as below:

Moon in Taurus
Domicile - Vênus - 5 points
Exaltation - Moon - 4 pts
Triplicity (I use all, not only the sect ruler)
Vênus - 3
Moon - 3
Mars - 3
Term - Mars - 2
Face - Saturn -1

Capricorn Ascendant
Dom - Saturn - 5
Ex - Mars - 4
Tripl
Venus - 3
Moon - 3
Mars - 3
Term - Mars - 2
Face - Sun - 1

Aspects (nearest):
Venus-Jupiter aspects both Asc and Moon - 1 pt each
Sun aspects Asc - 1 point

Total: Sat - 21; Ven - 17; Moon - 13; Jupiter - 12; Mercury - 10; Mars - 7; Sun - 5

Sat/Ven wins.

Thanks for the clarification, Margherita and Patrizia. I appreciate it.

Hello Patrizia,
Sorry for the moderation, but this blog is worse than the Fascist 20 years of Mussolini dictatorship Anyway I try to give room to everybody, I delete just spam, but there is always some moments to wait to see readers’ comments.
And thanks for your intervention, really appreciated.
Spero di vederti presto, insieme al Leone

Hi Christine and Gjiada.

The following is a quotation from a mail John sent to me on
the 19 May 2008, as an assignment before the Bulach workshop:

“Read The Real Astrology Applied, chapter: The Assessment of Temperament.
I have learned more about temperament since writing this, so please incorporate
these changes:
* treat the Lord of the Ascendant and the Ascendant as separate points, giving a
total of 5 bullet-points, not 4
* treat Saturn as being dry, not moist”

It seems that his ideas on the subject are still in progress, so let’s wait to
see the final result (in his natal book)…

Margherita, how nice of you to mention me on your blog!…And no need to quarrel about John!
Love
Patrizia Nava
http://www.astrologiaoraria.com

Hello Christine, happy to meet here, your blog is very nice.

I read on the net Frawley said Saturn is dry even when oriental in Fulda lecture last year.

Anyway I asked a corfimation in The Real Astrology List, where there are several of Frawley qualified horarists and they confirmed too. They say me Frawley is publishing his new book on natal astrology and he will write more on this.

Anyway I have no problems with Frawley, it’s just that according Ptolemy - and Lilly follows in his table planet by planet- a planet after its heliacal rising is always moist.

Everybody has his/her idea, I understand: as you see in my post there are even traditional astrologers saying that a fixed star with the Sun makes the temperament and the shape of the body. I just don’t agree, that’s all, but it’s just my idea.

Where does Frawley say that oriental Saturn is dry? In The Real Astrology Applied, page 122, he says that oriental Saturn is cold and moist.

Hi Margie, wot a lovely article, about this hollywood starlet…It seems incredible her success “one shot movie”, but everybody remember the roles played on two trash films like star wars- -and blues brothers.
Personally I think that the horoscope and his ruler must suggest something about the personality disease. This androgynus lady has a bad character, lunatic and proud at the same time-saturn in a masculine, fiery sign in an angle- ruler of the hor. and high above all and that’s incredible! we are here talkin of her with this opposition Saturn-Moon. Jupiter conjunt to Venus are together in detriment in alien house, they can’t do much to safe from psichiatric illness. Not so sensible like it seems, the princess Leia.